my maid of honor speech for my sisters wedding!
14 years ago
Tuesday, February 3, 2009
Feminism in the 1600s?
Desdemona's father describes her as "a maiden never bold" and yet we see a confident, independent and fiercely loyal woman in 1.3. Do you think that Desdemona represents a feminist figure in Othello? Or, as a now-married young woman, desperately looking for an escape, is simply falling into stereotypes?
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I think that Desdemona is a combo of a feminist character as well as a woman who doesnt really know where she is going. So we can call her a "lost feminist" (just kidding).
Her marrying a black man definitely supports her being an independent woman. We know that that was a risky move at the time. However, D still did it. She disobeyed her father in a way, but she didnt disrespect him when she encountered him again after the marriage. This shows her grace and poise. This could be considered a feminist move (her marrying othello) simply because she was following her heart, something that was rare in the 1600s for a woman. Also, that little war of the words between Iago and D shows how strong she is. Not only was she showing her strength, she was doing it by defending Emilia and women in general. Iago was saying that all women manipulate men with sex and are all whores. Desdemona challenged him on this idea means she has some feminist qualities.
When Cassio is demoted, she once again shows her feminist qualities by defending him. She truly believes that he should get his position back and she is trying her best to convince her husband that this should be done. Once again she is following her heart.
The reason I say she is a combo is becuase we dont know what is going to happen in the next few acts with her. Will she fall into the stereotype that Iago presents or the desperate-woman-looking-for-an-escape stereotype??
I believe that one could argue that Desdemona is a little stereotypical blonde bimbo, bubblegum chewing, playboy bunny princess, who is just trying to stick it to her father and is full of teenage angst. Again, this would be the case if she were only interested in Othello because of his status, as opposed to interested in him and who is he because his status reflects who he is. While it's a tough call at this point, I probably would call Desdemona a feminist. The biggest reason is because she's marrying a black man! Sure it might be a little more socially acceptable in this case because of the high military position that Othello holds, but still. She seems clear-headed in her speech to the court, and seems to really admire Othello for what he is. She knows what she wants and is going to get it, not letting anything stand in her way (in a non-teenager-going-against mommy-and-daddy-just-because-kinda way)
I agree with Faith, in that Desdemona is a partial feminist. There is not really one, universal definition of a feminist, mainly because different cultures around the world have different "social" inequities. Both culture and time determine what enables a women to be a feminist. That being said, Venice, Italy in the 1600s was most probably not a very women-oriented place. Desdemona would be seen as somewhat of a radical. After Othello summones her to defend their relationship, she doesn't seem very hesistant. As a matter of fact, I saw her to be really courageous because she chose Othello over her father, a decision that perhaps not a lot of woemn in even today's day would be willing to make. Not only does she reject him completely, but as Faith mentioned, she does it modestly. She acknowledges the fact that her father has nurtured her, but chooses to stand by her deciison nontheless. This, to me, shows confidence, a trait that many feminists embody. Also, she is willing to defend herself when Iago started to make conclusions about the whore-ishness? of all women. While Emilia simply stands there and listens to her husband blabber away, she chooses to speak on behalf of all women.
I don't think Desdemona represents a feminist entirely though. Considering the fact that her marriage and her relationship with Othello are greatly based on lust and impulse, one could say she is "molding" herself to fit in with her situation. Arguably, her "loyalty" is only temporary, and her "feminism" is just a phase, just as is her relationship with Othello.
I would say that Desdemona is a feminist figure in Othello as she continuely defies the socal norms: marrying without permision, marrying a black man, wanting adventure and excitement, and engaging in word play with Iago. However, she seems to become weak when interacting with love. Perhaps it is the weakness of a feminist, as once she is married and "in love", she becomes a rather naive character. This can be seen when she does not directly confront Othello about her loosing the handkerchief and is rather oblivious to the brainwashing her husband is going through from the hands of Iago.
I guess the saying is true that people who are in love act like fools.
Desdemona's character does not attract me much. She is simple, almost too simple, easy to depict, and the typical "most beautiful girl that every guy wants" character. She lacks depth. Although I was quite shocked that she had the audacity to speak up in front of a lot of men for her love, I feel that any women could and would do that for their significant other. I don't think she is a true feminist, I mean, she doesn't really risk anything by speaking up against her father. What is he going to do? Kill her? Obviously not. She has to be positive that she can be with Othello in order to hide it from her father for so long only to shock him with the news now. She knows of Othello's status - no one is going to punish them. A true feminist would risk selflessly for their rights and thoughts as a women, despite any circumstance. Desdemona just wanted a little drama in her life, and she got it.
After this, we begin to see Desdemona fade away. Her relationship with Othello is weak, and in front of her husband, she cannot be bold or openly expressive.
I don't think Desdemona is a feminist. She may have married a black man, betrayed her father, and have an interest in adventure, but this is only in response to the way she was brought up. Desdemona was probably brought up obeying orders from everyone around her and she was brought up to be a proper woman in society. Therefore, she was probably looking for a little escape from the life that kept her locked up for so long. Othello was her escape and she took it. Although marrying Othello was a risk she is still acting as a loyal wife should, and she still takes with her the lessons she learned growing up. Also, she married Othello because she wanted to, however this makes no impression on the status of women in the rest of society, it is only for Desdemona's own benefit.
I'm going to have to agree with Faitho and Himali on this one...-PARTIAL FEMINIST! i think it really depends on how you interpret Desdemona's actions. You could take her marrying Othello as her way of being rebellious against her father and wanting to escape from his overbearing ways, or as her really experiencing true love and being willing to go against the "norm". However, although marrying a black man was not really accepted, she didn't really fight for anything except her own pleasures. She didn't try to change the world and stand up for women (you don't see her making any kind of feminist speeches), but instead only betrayed her father for herself. And like someone else mentioned, Desdemona just kind of dies off, and she doesn't do anything of feminist nature. She loses her voice in regards to the handkerchief. Yes she's an independent woman for following her own desires, but idk she doesn't really put herself out there like some of the other feminist figures have.
I don’t believe that Desdemona is simply looking for an escape from her father by marrying Othello, I think she is just madly in love with Othello. The words that she voiced out loud to her father marked her reason for deceiving her father. She eloped with Othello knowing that her father would never accept someone like him to marry his daughter. Now she might seem like a role model to represent all those feminists for disowning her relationship with her father to follow her own heart; however, she only did this to be with her loved one. I do find it a bit inappropriate for a young lady to run away from her parents to get married to someone they don’t even see that often, shunning her parents from knowing. Through Othello’s perspective, he sees her as this strong-willed, determined woman who knows that what she is doing is right for her own good will. She is standing up to her own beliefs, and Othello supports her righteousness. To him, a woman knowing how to stand up against her father who has treated her as property is someone with strong feminist qualities.
Commenting on Faith here, I do view her somewhat of a feminist because she did challenge Iago’s assertion on women that the easiest way to get what they want is to manipulate men with sex. Thus, this gives her some feminist qualities for speaking up not just to herself but for all women. At the same time, I don’t think she is intending to be a feminist. She is probably only speaking up for her own righteousness and decisions. She is not trying to be an apotheosis challenging society’s treatment on women. She wants to get out of that shell and show her father that she is not a piece of property and she has a heart delicate enough to be broken. You might view her as a feminist, but she wouldn’t be as strong as she is without Othello keeping her away from becoming easily obedient to patriarchal society. Othello has influenced her to mature into this independent, fiercely loyal woman. Othello is saving her from depleting her soul and giving it away to someone, whom she knows will not bring her happiness. She is partially feminist, but that’s not her cause for eloping. However, will Iago’s assumption be right? Will she be strong enough to stay faithful to her husband? Or was she all this time just looking for a way out from the burden put on her from her father?
I think that Desdemona is finally freeing herself from her fathers' tight grasp. She probably had a taste of freedom and now wants all of it. She is making a statement... just like every young person does. She takes every step of freedom to the extreme and they are radical for her time and for her father. The prime example is when she decides to get married, she marries Othello, a black man. She does the extremes to really let everyone know that she is ready to make her own decisions and to go out on her own.
With this, I think that she married Othello to make a statement. Granted she might have some sort of feelings for him, but I think that she was using him mainly to show her father she means business.
I'm not sure if she does fall into stereotypes, because you wonder if all young girls fell into the category of way overprotective father, rebel, marry a black man.
Just to redirect, here:
1) If Desdemona only married Othello for an "escape", why is she so frantic for upsetting him about the lost handkerchief? She seems to have his best interests at heart, and does NOT seem to be afraid of him in the least. Doesn't that speak to her strength?
2) Do you feel that Des and Emilia have switched roles (now that we're nearing the end of the play)? We see Des as a strong female presence (regardless of her intentions) in the beginning of the play and some of you are suggesting that she is now "fading" in character by not "standing up to" Othello. Emilia, on the other hand, has gained her voice back in some respects. Thoughts?
I also don’t think that Desdemona is a feminist figure in Othello. Just because she married a black man without permission, and wanted excitement and adventure doesn’t mean she is a feminist, she didn’t truly risk anything. She wants adventures filled with excitement because she’s tired of her old boring life. She wanted a change and when Othello appeared with his exciting stories, she became interested and, in the end, fell in love with Othello. Othello was her way out of her old life and a door to starting a new, more exciting life. Although marrying Othello was a risk, she still acts as a faithful wife should.
In response to Ms. Winkler's comment, I don't think of Desdemona as a feminist at all. She does have strong beliefs like her faithfulness to her husband, but they are not really feminist. Emilia really stands out to me as a feminist. Her dialogue with Desdemona in 4.3 really reflected feminist beliefs. At the same time however, she was just trying to please her husband. This era was very different in the way that women were expected to act. Feminism in the present is very prevalent and widely excepted. Back then if Iago or any man heard Emilia talking like that it would be bad for Emilia. In my opinion Desdemona is not a feminist and Emilia is because of how they express their opinions.
I do have to agree with what seems to be the consensus here and say that Desdemona is a partial feminist. If she had wanted to go against her father, there many other ways of doing it, in that time I think marrying a black man was a little past the typical “sneak-a-cigarette-after–school-have-a-boyfriend-with-a-motercycle” type of rebellion. Maybe she really fell in love with Othello, but the marriage was her little form of rebellion. When Brabantio called her “a maiden never bold”, I think he was telling his truth. Perhaps the love between Othello and Desdemona changed her, and made her more feminist. Loving Othello could have made Desdemona realize how stupid the social norms were and to be a little more bold and herself.
I’m going to pretend I didn’t read anything past this scene (and the one when she stands up to Iago) and answer this question as I would have when I had a smidgeon of respect for the woman.
Desdemona seems to be a feminist character, especially because she demonstrates that she is able of making her own decisions. Although she fell for Othello in an unconventional way, and I doubt that the two ever really /truly/ loved each other, she fell for him without her father arranging a marriage. She made her own choice and eloped with Othello, instead of remaining home like a dutiful little daughter until Brabantio introduced her to a suitor he would deem perfect. Even during the scene with Iago, when Iago degrades women and is cruel to Emilia, Desdemona demonstrates that she has a feminist backbone by fighting back and not allowing him to walk all over /her/.
Continuing on from this point, though, Desdemona because a blubbering buffoon, and I can’t stand her. At all. :D A true feminist would stand up to her husband’s false accusations and try and find the root of his cold behavior, and not stomach the slap. D:<
Desdemona does seem like she is a feminist. To me she's an independent and strong woman. I think that her father just doesn't know who his daughter his. It's like how some parents think they know their child, when in fact, they really don't. It's the same situation. Brabantio doesn't know Desdemona. Because he thinks that she would never disobey him, he described her as "a maiden never bold". But that all changed when she went up to him and said that Othello was in fact her husband. She didn't deny it. She didn't try to walk away from it. She stepped up and announced it in front of the others as well. To do that means that she is a fiercely loyal woman. She does love Othello and she'll admit it to anyone.
So she is a feminist figure because she's stepping out of the shell. She did things that her father never expected. She married Othello and spoke for herself. Would an ordinary woman during that time do the same? I doubt that. Desdemona is different. She's different from the others.
I can see how Desdemona would resemble a little bit of both of those things. Of course, as many people have already mentioned, she plays a feminist at the beginning of the play when she stands up to her father and fights for her unconventional love with Othello. She risked everything when she fought for her love with Othello, and really stuck to her point that a woman has the right to marry based on love, not on reputation. She took a strong stance in front of the judge and in front of her father.
But then again, now that the play has progressed and we have seen her interact with Othello and the other characters, she does seem to be falling into somewhat of a stereotype. The fact that she doesn't speak up for herself most of the time really pisses me off sometimes (not gonna lie). I think that an all out feminist in a situation like Des' with Othello would have strongly asserted her opinion, and would have tried harder to prove that she was innocent. But i do give Des props for the few times that she somewhat stood up for herself. We do have to remember that she was coming from a well to do family in which she probably would have never even argued her case AT ALL. So for her character and situation, i would say she is an aspiring feminist. But when you consider the lengths that she couldve gone to in order to save her marriage and to take a stance for all women in that kind of situation, I'd say she could be stereotyped as weak. Emilia, on the other hand, appears more like a feminist. But Des was definately not looking for an escape. Come on, why the heck would she look for an escape by placing herself in a situation that was dissaproved of by so many people right from the start?
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