my maid of honor speech for my sisters wedding!
13 years ago
Tuesday, February 3, 2009
Who's Line is It Anyway?
Although Iago is the clear villain of the play, he is not the only skilled orator. Othello demonstrates his own rhetorical skill in his convincing speech to the senate in 1.3. Both men are overwhelmingly persuasive. As we have recently seen in the presidential debates (and according to the NHS curriculum), public speaking is an essential skill. Who do you think would more effectively win over an audience in a presidential debate?
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I love the title of the post by the way. I miss that show... and the guy that was partly bald. He was my favorite.
Anyway, it seems that we have come back to presidential debates (like Beowulf) even though they are long over. Since both men are very persuasive and can capture anyone's attention, the decision on who would win an audience during a debate is difficult to choose.
In this case, I think that decision would rely not on skill, but rather on reputation. So far in the play, we have seen both men speak with equal skill. In addition, they have yet to banter among themselves which would ahve been the ultimate test. Should an audience be exposed to the two in a presidential debate, I think it is safe to say that the public would follow the more popular of the two.
And in this case, it is Othello. The Moor of Venice has the reputation of a general and thus someone to be admired. In addition, as a Moor, he is certain to be noticed in a mostly all white society. Thus through experience and prominence in the military and just plain interest from the public, Othello would more effectively win over an audience in a presidential debate.
Haha I love that show too!
So I agree that both men are extremely persuasive and clever in their speeches and how they talk to people in general. Iago is clever in that he knows what to say to who. He is able to adapt his ideas to his audience which we have learned ( actually it has been drilled into our heads) is a very important skill to public speaking and persuasion. Iago is really good at talking to a person one-on-one like when he convinced Roderigo to not kill himself along with some other things. After watching the movie clip of him in that scene (although it was only in the movie) it is obvious that he is good at talking one on one but im not sure if he would be as good in a large group like Othello.
During Othello's court case he was extremely well composed and calm compared to Brabantio's scattered and idiotic ideas. Othello really has this suave about him that makes him very persuasive and likable. Overall I think Othello has the aspects of a good politician and I think he would win over the audience in a presidential debate.
-mollymartin
There's always three peeps on that show, but i suppose you get kudos for being creative...
From reading the book and even watching the movie, Iago's orator skills are noticably phenomenial. He fools everyone! He gains the truth of anyone he wants and basically has everyone eating out of the palm of his hand. He's quick on his feet and knows the perfect thing to see.
Othello, on the other hand is honest. He has a position of honorable rank and also knows how to get his way. But he doesn't lie about it like Iago does, and most importantly he doesn't jump to conclusions. Several times Othello is thrown into a possible hostile environment but avoids all sorts of violence. He doesn't resort to conclusions and has an mind.
I really think the winner of a presidential debate between them would most definitely depend on the audience at hand. Both candidates have great qualities that could easily hypnotize an audience. Iago would be able to get himself out of a difficult of uncomfortable situation, however, the truth might catch up with him, so i think that will ultimately defeat him. Othello is truthful and is also a great speaker so I believe his genuineness with captivate the audience.
Go Othello!
Both definietely have strengths in public speaking. Othello is, like katie said, the honest one. I agree that this is probably his strongest asset. He also has self control and doesnt readily look for violence. He is cool under pressure and would probably be able to answer the tough questions in a debate, like those on health care (or something...). Also, his position would def help him out. He is the general of the army! With this, he could say that he has fought for the country, etc. And of course, him being commander and chief of the country would not be a big jump from what he is already doing.
Iago has skills. He is a real manipulator. Mr. Manipulation as I like to call him, could definitely convince some people in a presidential debate. His eloquent language and convincing strategies would certainly make people support him. However, we know that his motives are tainted; even villainous to some people. What would he do to a nation if he had power? He is not really dishonest but he is really, really, really manipulative.
Even though Iago is the crazy and convincing one, we have a glimpse of who Othello really is... He is not the entirely righteous person we think he is. We know this from Miss W telling us in class and the numerous foreshadows in the play.
So, I am not really sure who would prevail (VFA! woo hoo!) in a presidential debate. I think the Scene one and two Othello we know well so far might edge Iago out.
I'm not sure if it is a matter of who is a better orator. They are both very successful, as everyone else has already said - and both have entirely different motives.
Both know their audience. When Othello presents his case and beliefs to Brabantio and the court, he is clear and strong in his words. He colours his argument to match that of his audience. When Iago convinces people to do certain things (i.e. Roderigo to upset Cassio, Cassio to appeal to Desdemona, etc.), he also proves to be effective in shading his argument to be attractive and comprehensive to that of his audience. He befriends them and makes himself out to care about them - having their best interests in mind.
THE DIFFERENCE IS that Othello is never really unpure is motives, or colouring his argument in such a way that he is hiding his true intent - convincing his arguments to do and say things that they might not have before because of the logic and true feelings and honesty associated with his argument. Iago is the opposite. He knows his audience, and takes advantage of them, tricking them into doing and saying things that they would not say - which is different than Othello's motives. Iago colors and shades his arguments so that they are no longer his arguments - they are lies that are guilded with this layer of fake truth.
So...both are effective. Iago just...is bad...
Whoa! I've mentioned that Othello is manipulative? Please don't misunderstand me...
Othello is merely a human being -- a man prone to jealousy and insecurity like the rest of us. He is, however, elevated to an almost god-like status (at least in the beginning of the play) that I don't begin to question. Everything we've seen of him is the essence of perfection -- his motives are pure. If he was flawed or had ill intentions, he would not be a tragic hero. Remember, the greater they are the harder they fall.
If you meant to imply, Faith, that Othello is a skillful orator and could therefore manipulate other similarly to Iago, I would agree. The main difference, as Erik stated, is the intent.
What I meant is that Othello will not remain the completely god like person he is now; he is going to fall. When I mentioned what you said, I was referring to what you said about him being reduced to "a base animal." Presidents and leaders arent base animals and therefore that would be an argument against him being able to win a presidential debate. We already know that Iago has tainted motives and I am pretty sure that Othello is going to do some things, soon, that arent so admirable either.
Both are extremely skilled in public speaking. But they both have different personalities that tie into their ability to convince.
I would say that Iago isn’t completely honest, because he twists his words and arguments in a way that he isn’t completely lying but he isn’t telling the truth either. Iago is great with knowing the people he is talking to and taking advantage of them. His motives aren’t good and pure. Iago is able to convince people things that they otherwise might not have said, done, or believed.
On the other hand Othello is truly honest and clear. Along with those attributes, he also has a high standing position of an army general. That honorable rank would definitely help him as well. Othello has great self control and doesn’t jump to conclusions. He also has this composed and calm nature. Because of all of Othello’s great attributes and a good genuine heart I think he would be able to effectively win in a presidential debate.
Othello could definitely win over an audience in a presidential debate; he is as smooth as any modern politician and his government experience and propensity for strong leadership is certainly an important skill in campaigning. Although Iago would be able to respond quickly and smoothly during a debate, I think that Othello would be able to. Because a politician has to be able to appeal to the most people they can, at least in a democratic government, Othello’s ability to win the support of only Venetian nobles but also his subordinates and soldiers in lower classes exemplifies his skill as a persuasive and charismatic person. At the start of the play, he is able to calm Brabantio down sufficiently enough so that he not only backs down from threatening to kill him but also allows the general to marry his young daughter. Othello also would be able to remind the audience of his experience as a military leader and higher status than Iago that makes him a more qualified candidate.
Ok, so I see that almost everyone here says that Iago and Othello would both succeed in winning over audience. I personally would have to disagree, not because I like Iago, but because I believe that he posses the abilities that would be needed to win over an audience.
Othello, a strong speaker, would also be able to win over an audience. Othello takes a more mellow approach to winning his audience, when he speaks he shows his audience that he understands the matter which he speaks of. Also, he is truthful in what he says which makes the audience like him. Whenever Othello speaks you sense the sincerity in his speaking.
Although Othello is a strong speaker, I would say that Iago is more likely to win over an audience. Iago would be the one to win over an audience because he has the ability to change himself to adapt to whoever he is talking to, unlike Othello who would have to be addressing a more refined and intelligent audience. Iago's ability to create a false front, meaning that he is able to "relate" to any audience gives him an edge. Also, when Iago speaks he doesn't directly say what hes trying to get at, rather he beats around the bush so that then his audience is able to fill in the blank spots with whatever they believe. This allows people to believe whatever Othello says.
So without a doubt I would say that Iago would be the one to win over an audience.
I must comment on this post, just considering how much I adore this show… (Collin Mochrie and Ryan Stiles are EPIC comedians.)
Hmmph. The question itself, however, is rather hard to answer. Othello does prove himself to be a good public speaker by addressing people with confidence. He shows that he has nothing to hide, and skillfully crafts his words to make other people believe that he is honorable. In contrast, Iago plays on the human mind by only saying enough to instill an idea in someone’s thoughts and have him/her come to his/her own conclusion.
All that aside, I think Iago would more effectively win over an audience in a presidential debate, just because he comes across as the more stereotypical politician. He doesn’t flat out make promises, but he alludes to a lot that causes those that listen to him to become smitten. He makes people believe every word that comes out of his mouth by weaving a curtain of honesty around himself that blinds people from his actual deceitfulness.
Seriously, there is nooo doubt that Iago has better speaking skills in this case than Othello. Just look at all the chaos and grief that he was able to cause simply by infecting the people around him with his oh-so-maipulative words. I mean sure, i would muchhh rather have Othello as the winner of a presidential debate (well, the old Othello at least). He was smart, considerate, strong, and a real leader. Buttttt, like the post says, public speaking is an essential skill, and I guess you could say that Iago has the public speaking skills of a god. idk where he gets it from, but he really does plan out everything that he says. Not once have we heard him slip out a phrase that lead the other charcters to believe that the entire downfall of the play was a result of his amazing persuasivenes. I totally agree with what Angie said about him being a steriotypical politician. He tries to act like a friend to everybody, much like a politcian would try to convince the public that he could relate to each and every citizen. Relatability is a big part of elections. And from what Iago says to the other characters, he appears as a very trustworthy friend who geniunely cares about the well being of them. And even though he is actually the total opposite (like most politicians turn out to be even nowadays) he just keeps coming up with those clever ideas and choices of words that maintain his relatable status.
First off, I'd just like to give props to Iago because someone who can be called "Honest Iago" numerous times is a mastermind. He knows just what to say and do in order to get people on his side. GENIUS.
Anyways, Iago would definitely win. I don't know but there's just something about him that makes people want to trust him. People are blind. They don't see that truth because Iago has this unknown characteristic that makes him seem like everyone's "friend". Even though we know that he's two-faced and that he has the LARGEST EGO, the other characters can't see that are are falling into his trap.
The thing is, in my opinion, Iago has the ability to persuade. I don't think Othello can do it as great as Iago. Like what Katie said, Iago lies to get what he wants while Othello is honest. It's definitely easier to lie that to be just plain honest. Lying means that you're telling the people what they want to hear.
So say that Iago doesn't care about the environment, or the high unemployment rates, or anything else on people's minds. During a debate, if he says that he doesn't care about this and that, I doubt that he wouldn't even get a vote. He'd lie to get the votes. Therefore, he would win. To me, Othello seems too honest, in a good way though. But being too honest might mean that you'll lose the support of others. He might say something that he supports but others don't. While Iago would say just the opposite.
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